The following is Carol DaRonch’s testimony under direct examination by Deputy County Attorney David Yocom on Monday February 23, 1976. The examination is from the transcript of Case No. 28629 in the Third District Court of Salt Lake City, The State of Utah vs. Theodore Robert Bundy. John O’Connell represented Ted Bundy.
Q. Will you state your name and address, please?
A. Carol Ann DaRonch, 5456 South Seventh West.
Q. Carol, I am going to ask you to keep your voice up–the acoustics in here are not the best in the world—so the Judge and counsel can hear. Okay?
A: Okay.
Q: How old are you, Carol?
A: Nineteen.
Q: And what is your birth date?
A: June 8th, 1956.
Q: And how old were you on the 8th day of November, 1974?
A: Eighteen.
Q: And where did you reside at that time, Carol?
A: With my parents.
Q: At the same address?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you own an automobile at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Would you describe for the Court the type of car you owned?
A: It’s a ’74 maroon Camaro.
Q: Where did you work at that time, if you did?
A: Mountain Dell.
Q: Where is that located?
A: 205 East Second South.
Q: What did you do there?
A: Typist.
Q: Have you had an opportunity, Carol, to check the record with your employer to determine what hours you worked on the 8th day of November, on Friday, 1974?
A: Yes.
Q: And when did you work?
A: I worked from 9:00 to 6:00.
Q: And where did you go after you got off work at 6:00 p.m. that day?
A: I went straight home.
Q: Do you know how long it takes you to get home from Mountain Bell?
A: About 20 minutes.
Q: Do you recall what you did at home?
A: No.
Q: Do you recall the next thing you did?
A: I went to Fashion Place Mall.
Q: And why did you go there?
A: I just went there shopping. I was looking for a birthday present.
Q: Anyone go with you?
A: No.
Q: And not long after you got home did you park at Fashion Place Mall?
A: About 15 to 20 minutes.
Q: Do you recall when, approximately, you arrived at the mall?
A: About 7:00.
Q: Where did you go after you arrived at the Mall— the parking lot, specifically?
A: I parked in Sears’ parking lot.
Q: And where is that located in relationship to the Sears store itself?
A: On the west side of Sears.
Q: What did you do after you parked your vehicle there?
A: I got out of my car, and I walked into the Sears store.
Q: Did you stay in the Sears store any length of time?
A: No. I walked through it.
Q: And where did you exit the Sears store?
A: Where it goes into the mall.
Q. You entered and exited the Sears store and proceeded along the main part of the Mall?
A: Yes.
Q: And then you went west in the Mall?
A: Yes.
Q: How far west did you go?
A: To the Castleton’s store.
Q: After you made a left-hand turn and turned down the mall, how far did you go there?
A: Almost to Auerbach’s. To Walden’s Book Store.
Q: During this period of time, did you have any period of conversation or see anyone you knew?
A: Yes.
Q: And who was that?
A: My cousin.
Q: And what is her name?
A: Joanne DaRonch.
Q: And where did that discussion take place, and conversation? About midway in the corridor?
A: Yes.
Q: Was anyone with your cousin?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was that?
A: Jolynne Turner.
Q: And how long did that conversation last?
A: Just a couple of minutes.
Q: What did you do then?
A: Walked down toward Walden’s Book Store.
Q: What did you do at Walden’s?
A: I stopped and looked in the window of the book store.
Q: Did anything happen then?
A: Yes. I turned around, and a man approached me.
Q: Approached you from which direction?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: How long had you been at the window when you first noticed this man?
A: A couple minutes. It wasn’t until I turned around that he came to me.
Q: Did you see him right in front of you, or behind you, or how?
A: Face to face.
Q: How were you dressed at that time, Carol?
A: Had Levi’s on, and a leather coat with fur around it.
Q: How long had you had that coat?
A: A couple weeks.
Q: Was it relatively new then?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. As best you recall Carol, what were the first words spoken to you by this man?
A: He asked me if I had a car parked in the Sears parking lot.
Q: Parking lot?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that man present in court today, Carol?
Q: Yes.
A: Where is he seated?
Q: Right there (indicated).
A: Will you tell me what he is wearing?
Q: A blue-gray suit.
A: You are referring to the counsel table?
A: Yes.
MR. YOCOM: May the record show the identification of Mr. Bundy?
MR. O’CONNELL: It may.
THE COURT: It will.
MR. YOCOM: Take your time, Carol. Let’s go through it slowly, okay? Now, he asked you if you had a car parked in the Sears parking lot?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you say?
A: I told him yes, I did.
Q: What did he say?
A: He said someone was seen trying to break into it.
Q: Go on, what happened then?
A: He asked me what the license plate number was, and I told him—
Q: What did you tell him the number was?
A: KTO 32.
Q: Did he respond to that?
A: He said yes, that’s the one.
Q: What happened then?
A: Then he asked me if I wanted to go out to the car with him to see if anything was missing. So we walked out the doors between Auerbach’s and Roper’s, out to my car.
Q: Let’s go back a little bit. Did he mention any official capacity that he had? What he was doing and why he was interested in your car?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Did he say anything about being a police officer at that time?
A: I think so.
Q: Did he say what police department or agency he worked for?
A: No.
Q: Then you say you proceeded away from Walden’s Book Store and went out in the parking lot, is that right?
A: Yes.
Q: As best you can recall, Carol, what were the lighting conditions inside the mall in front of the Walden’s Book Store?
A: It was well lit.
Q: And the area from Walden’s to the exit by Auerbach’s, how was the lighting there?
A: Very bright.
Q: Now, as you were walking to the car, was there any conversation between yourself and Mr. Bundy?
MR. O’CONNELL: Your Honor, I object to Mr. Yocom referring to this man as “Mr. Bundy.” I realize she has identified him, and I suppose if she wants to do it, that’s all right. All the way through these proceedings he, whenever he is talking to this lady, refers to the person as “Mr. Bundy,” and is reinforcing in her mind the identification. I object to it.
THE COURT: Alright, well the objection is sustained for the purposes that Mr. O’Connell has based the objection on.
MR. YOCOM: I don’t understand the Court’s ruling. She has so identified him, and he has admitted that is his name in this courtroom today. He is the Defendant and I think I’m entitled to refer to him by his name, your Honor.
THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
MR. YOCOM. Thank you.
Q: As you proceeded to the car, did you have any conversation with this man?
MR. O’CONNELL: Well, I object to that for the same reason. It’s leading, and he keeps suggesting to her, and that’s what these officers have been doing for the last six months.
MR. YOCOM: There’s no jury here, John. Let me rephrase the question.
Q: Did you have a conversation with the man?
MR. O’CONNELL: That’s why I have an objection.
THE COURT: I understand.
Q: Did you have any conversation with the man, Carol?
A: No.
Q: And do you recall who walked in front or behind, or how you walked to your car?
A: No.
Q: Where was he at this time.
A: He was walking alongside of me.
Q: Do you recall on your right or left?
A: I don’t recall.
Q: When you got to the car, what did you do?
A: I opened my side of the door and got in— I didn’t get all the way in; I just looked in to see if anything was missing.
Q: Is it a two door or a four door automobile?
A: Two.
Q: And which door did you open?
A: The driver’s side.
Q: And was the car locked at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you notice anything unusual about the car?
A: No.
Q: And when you looked in, did you notice anything unusual?
A: No.
Q: Now, where was this individual at the time you opened the door?
A: Standing by the door.
Q: Which door?
A: The driver’s side.
Q: Across from you?
A: No. He was standing next to me by the car door that I opened.
Q: What happened then?
A: Then I told him nothing was missing, and he walked around to the passenger’s side of the car, and he tried to open the door.
Q: Go on?
A: He said— He asked me if I was sure nothing was gone, and I said no, nothing was. So I shut the door.
Q: The driver’s side door?
A: Yes.
Q: Was the passenger’s side door ever opened?
A: No.
Q: Did he say anything to you about that?
A: No.
Q: What happened then?
A: And then he said they had a man inside that was seen trying to break into my car, and they were holding him inside the mall. So he came back around the side of the car, and we walked back in towards the mall between Sears and the mall, the exit that goes between there.
Q: Did he say who “they” were?
A: No.
Q: How were the lighting conditions in the parking lot at that time?
A: There were street lights that are in the parking lot.
Q: What were the weather conditions that evening? Do you remember?
A: It was a little bit rainy.
Q: When you walked back in the mall, what entrance did you go in?
A: I went in between Sears and the mall.
Q: What happened at that point, Carol?
A: He looked up towards Sears and down towards the mall, and he said they must have taken him down to the substation.
Q: Again, did he say who “they” were?
A: I don’t recall.
Q: Had he mentioned any time up til then why he was with you?
A: I believe he said he was a police officer.
Q: Do you recall at what time he said that?
A: No.
Q: Were you aware at that time whether or not there was a substation in Fashion Place Mall?
A: No.
Q: Now, after you stopped where did he go from there?
A: Walked out the exit straight across from where we just walked in.
Q: And you walked outside?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened then?
A: We walked around the building over by Castleton’s.
Q: He did or you did?
A: We both did. And he talked to me, asked me two things: He asked me how old I was, and if I was doing anything later that night, why I wouldn’t be able to come down, go over there with him and sign a complaint against the man who was trying to break into my car.
Q: And were these conversations while you were walking?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he in front of you or you to the side of him or behind him?
A: I was a little behind him.
Q: Did you have a chance to observe him as you were walking?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you observe?
A: The way he walked.
Q: Anything else?
A: His pants.
Q: What did you notice about those?
A: They were green.
Q: Anything else?
A: No.
Q: When he talked to you, was he looking forward or at you?
A: He was looking sideways at me.
Q: How close were you to him while you were walking?
A: Right next to each other.
Q: On which side?
A: I was on the left side, and he was on the right side.
Q: Is there any lighting as you walk along there that you noticed, Carol?
A: No.
Q: Could you see his facial features as you were walking?
A: Yes.
Q: After you reentered the mall, what happened then?
A: We walked back out through the other exit on the west side.
Q: Do you know what is located in that area, what stores?
A: Farnell’s and Broadway.
Q: Farnell’s Ice Cream store?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have any conversation with him while you were inside the mall between entering and exiting again?
A: No.
Q: What sort of pace were you walking, how fast?
A: I don’t know.
Q: Did you notice anything unusual about it?
A: No.
Q: How would you describe it as far as your normal pace of walking?
A: Fast.
Q: Fairly fast?
A: Yes.
Q: After you exited the mall, where did you go then?
A: Walked down toward Skaggs.
Q: Did you stop there?
A: No.
Q: Where did you go from there?
A: To the laundromat on the other side of the street.
Q: Okay. Now, what is that street you have indicated there?
A: 6100 South.
Q: Where did you go when you got to that laundromat?
A: To a door that was on the side of the laundromat.
Q: Where did he go?
A: He walked to the door and tried to open it, and it was locked. So he walked down the alley between this building and the laundromat.
Q: Where did you remain at that time?
A: Where I was, out in front on the sidewalk.
Q: You stayed on the sidewalk?
A: Yes.
Q: How far the alley did he go?
A: He walked about halfway down.
Q: Then what happened?
A: Then he turned around and came back.
Q: What happened then, Carol?
A: I didn’t know what he was doing, so I asked if I could see his badge or some identification.
Q: Where did that take place?
A: Right where I was standing in front of the laundromat.
Q: Why did you ask him at that time, Carol?
A: Because I didn’t know why he walked down the alley and walked back, and why the door wouldn’t be open if it was a substation.
Q: What did he do?
A: Took a wallet out and showed me a badge that was inside the wallet he had.
Q: Did you see where he got that wallet from?
A: No.
Q: Did he have any sort of jacket or coat on?
A: He had a jacket on.
Q: Do you recall the color of that jacket?
A: No.
Q: Did he say anything to you when he produced the wallet?
A: I can’t remember.
Q: Can you describe the badge that he showed you?
A: I think it was silver.
Q: Was it in the wallet itself?
A: Yes.
Q: How large was it?
A: It wasn’t really big. It was kind of oval-shaped.
Q: Did you notice any printing on the badge?
A: No.
Q: Any further conversation take place at that time?
A: He asked me if I would come down to the station with him, because they probably had him down there, and fill out a complaint against him.
Q: Did you respond to that?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you say?
A: I said, “all right.”
Q: How were the lighting conditions at this time on the sidewalk in front of the laundromat?
A: There were street lights and there were lights from the laundromat.
Q: Could you see his facial features at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: How close were you to him?
A: He was right in front of me when he was showing me the badge.
Q: At that time did you get an impression of how tall he was?
A: Yes.
Q: And what was that impression?
A: About six feet.
Q: How did you determine that, Carol?
A: By my own height.
Q: How tall are you?
A: Five seven.
Q: Do you have occasion to be around people about six foot tall very often?
A: Yes.
Q: How about his physical build, his weight, structure? Did you get an impression as to that by then?
A: Yes.
Q: How much would you say that he weighed at that time, or how was he built?
A: He was slim.
Q: An idea or an estimate of how much he weighed?
A: 160 or so— I don’t know.
Q: Anything about his facial features that you noticed at that time?
A: The way his hair was. Greased back off his forehead.
Q: Did you notice any foreign substance on the hair?
A: Oil.
Q: Anything else about his facial features?
A: No.
Q: Did you notice whether he had any facial hair?
A: Yes. A mustache.
Q: Describe that for us.
A: Whether big or bushy?
Q: Just your impression of it.
A: I don’t know, it was just an average-looking mustache?
Q: Light or dark? Heavy?
A: It was dark.
Q: How long?
A: It came about down to here.
Q: You are indicating above the corners of the mouth?
A: Yes.
Q: After your conversation with him there on the sidewalk, what happened then?
A: We walked over to his car.
Q: Where was his car parked?
A: It was parked across the street from the lobby.
Q: How far?
A: I’m not sure of that.
Q: What direction was the car headed while it was parked there?
A: East.
Q: That would be east on 6100 South?
A: Yes.
Q: And what kind of car was it, Carol?
A: It was a Volkswagen.
Q: When you got to the car, what did you do?
A: Got in the car, and he got in the car.
Q: Where did you get in, and where did he get in?
A: He got in on the driver’s side. I got in on the passenger’s side.
Q: Now did you notice anything unusual about the vehicle at the time you got in it?
A: Yes. It had— the top of the back seat was ripped. Before I got in it, I noticed that it had rust spots on the front. It didn’t have a license plate.
Q: Anything else?
A: No.
Q: Was there any lighting in the area where you got into the vehicle?
A: No.
Q: Were there any lights coming from the Fashion Place Mall parking lot?
A: Yes, from Skaggs.
Q: What was your impression as to the color of the car at that time, Carol?
A: It was a light color. White or beige.
Q: Did you notice anything further about the interior of the car?
A: Just that it had a ripped top of the back seat.
Q: How far did that rip go, or cover, in the back seat of the car?
A: Almost all the way across it. Not quite.
Q: After you got into the car, was there any conversation that took place between you and him at that time?
A: He put on a seat belt and told me that, you know, he would like me to put on my seat belt. I told him no, I didn’t want to. He said, “okay.”
Q: Was there any particular reason why you refused to put on the seat belt?
A: I just didn’t want to.
Q: What was your attitude toward him at this time, Carol?
A: I didn’t know what to think.
Q: What do you mean? Let me ask you this, Carol: Were you frightened at that time?
MR. O’CONNELL: I object to the leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q: What was going through your mind at this time, Carol?
MR. O’CONNELL: I object now. He asked her the question, she couldn’t think of the answer. Since I objected because it’s leading now he asks the question again. I think he ought to drop the matter.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
Q: What was going through your mind at that time, Carol?
A: I wasn’t sure about it.
Q: What do you mean by that?
A: He was a stranger.
Q: Okay. After you got into the car and you had this conversation about the seat belts, what happened then?
A: He made a U-turn. The car was facing west. He made a U-turn going east?
Q: You originally said the car was facing east. Was it facing west towards State Street?
A: Yes.
Q: And he made a U-turn in the opposite direction?
A: Yes.
Q: Which would have been east, is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Where did the car go then?
A: To the end of the street, then it turned left.
Q: Were there any lights inside the car?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Could you see him at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: How close were you to him?
A: Sitting in the next seat.
Q: How far away would that be?
A: I don’t know.
Q: Have you ever been in a VW before?
A: Yes.
Q: How far away are the seats in a VW?
A: They are close. They are next to each other.
Q: Are they bucket type seats?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. When you made the U-turn and proceeded east—
A: Yes.
Q: —where did he go from there?
A: He turned left and crossed a street and pulled over by McMillan School.
Q: Did the car stop for any reason on that trip that you have described?
A: No.
Q: For any stop signs that you noticed?
A: Yes.
Q: Where were they located?
A: Right here.
Q: You are indicating here which is the intersection of 300 East and 5900 South?
A: Yes.
Q: Did the car stop here at this corner?
A: Yes.
Q: Is there a stop sign there?
A: Yes.
Q: Was there any conversation between you and him while you were in the vehicle up until the time it stopped?
A: No.
Q: Could you describe how that stop occurred?
A: He pulled up on the curb a little bit and came back down, then stopped.
Q: What do you mean, “pulled up on the curb”?
A: Two wheels went up over the curb.
Q: Which wheels? Which side of the car?
A: On the right side.
Q: After he brought the car to a stop, what happened next?
A: I started— I asked him what he was doing, this wasn’t the police station. I just wanted to know what he was doing, why he was stopping. He didn’t say anything. He grabbed my arm and put a handcuff around it.
Q: Did you see where he got the handcuff from?
A: No.
Q: Had you noticed those handcuffs prior to this time?
A: Yes. In his jacket.
Q: Where in the course of the events did you notice it? Where were you located?
A: Back at the Sears parking lot.
Q: Where did you see it at that time on his person?
A: In his jacket.
Q: Interior or exterior pocket?
A: Interior.
Q: Breast pocket, like I am indicating here?
A: Yes.
Q: How did you happen to see them back in the Sears parking?
A: When he tried to to open the door, his jacket came open.
Q: Now, if you can Carol, describe how he grabbed you when he put the handcuffs on your arm.
A: He grabbed my left arm, I think it’s with his right arm, and put the handcuffs on with his left hand.
Q: Where did he have ahold of your arm?
A: By the wrist, right here.
Q: Did he say anything at that time?
A: No.
Q: What happened then?
A: Then I put my right hand on the door to open it, and he grabbed me by the arm around the neck this way.
Q: Which arm around the neck?
A: I think it was his right arm.
Q: Around your neck?
A: Yes.
Q: What were you doing at this time, Carol?
A: I think I had the door open, and my foot was out of it.
Q: Were you saying anything?
A: I just kept screaming, asking him what he was doing, and he never said anything.
Q: What happened then?
A: And then he pulled the gun out and said he was going to blow my head off.
Q: Did you see where he got the gun?
A: No.
Q: Did you see what hand he had it in?
A: No.
Q: What did you see of the gun?
A: That it was small and black.
Q: Did you see where it was pointed?
A: At me.
Q: What part of your body?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: Did he have ahold of you at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Where?
A: By the arm.
Q: What were you doing at this time?
A: Trying to get out of the car door.
Q: Okay. What happened then?
A: I got out of the car door, and he came out after me across the seat.
Q: Did he still have ahold of you at any time you got out?
A: I think so.
Q: How did he get out of the car?
A: Came across the passenger’s side out the same door I got out of.
Q: Were you then both outside the vehicle?
A: Yes.
Q: What’s the next thing you recall happening?
A: We were facing each other. I was fighting with him. I tried to get loose. I remember grabbing hold of his arm and his hand and feeling that he had a bar in his hand.
Q: You were fighting with him?
A: Yes.
Q: What were you doing?
A: I was screaming as loud as I could. I was turning away and pulling, scratching.
Q: You have fairly long fingernails today, Carol. Were they that length then?
A: Longer.
Q: Where were you scratching?
A: His arm.
Q: Did he at any time get his arm around you?
A: No.
Q: Behind your head?
MR. O’CONNELL: I object to that. He’s leading, and counsel just motioned to her.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q: What arm were you scratching him?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: Now, you say you felt a bar?
A: Yes.
Q: Will you describe it for us?
A: Had four sides or six sides.
Q: And where was that?
A: In his hand.
Q: What hand?
A: His right hand.
Q: Where did you feel it?
A: In his hand, around it.
Q: Would you show me how he had that?
A: He had it in his hand, and I had my hand around it, keeping it from coming down on me.
Q: Would you show me how he had it and where you were at the time?
A: He had it up in the air, and I had my hand up like that.
Q: With one hand or two?
A: One.
Q: Did you get the impression of how large the object was?
A: No.
Q: How big around it was?
A: Yes.
Q: How big was it?
A: About this big.
MR. O’CONNELL: Indicating what, about a half inch?
THE COURT: Approximately.
MR. YOCOM: Thereabouts.
Q: Did you get an impression as to what that object was, Carol?
A: Yes.
Q: What?
A: My impression was that it was a crowbar.
Q: Why did you get that impression.
A: Because I know what they feel like.
Q: How do you know that?
A: Because my dad has one.
Q: Have you felt his crowbar before?
A: Yes.
Q: What was your impression at that time, Carol, as to what he was doing with that crowbar?
MR. O’CONNELL: I object, your Honor. In the first place, I think I should have objected when he asked about the impression and various things. I don’t know what that means. Does that mean he is asking her to guess? Now he is asking her for an opinion as to what somebody’s intent was. I think that is totally improper.
THE COURT: The objection is sustained as to that question.
Q: What was he doing with the crowbar?
A: He was trying to hit me with it.
Q: What made you believe that?
A: Because he was pushing it down on me.
Q: Did you ever have ahold of the crowbar with more than one hand?
A: No.
Q: Which hand did you have ahold of it with?
A: My left hand.
Q: What was he doing with his other hand?
A: I am not— I don’t know. I guess he just had hold of me.
Q: What happened next, Carol?
A: And then I finally broke loose and ran around the front of the car, ran out to the street.
Q: Broke loose from his hold?
A: Yes.
Q: In which direction did you run?
A: Out in front of the car.
Q: The VW?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you see anything at that point?
A: Just that a car was coming.
Q: How did you determine that?
A: I could see its lights.
Q: Did you look back at all?
A: No.
Q: What did you do?
A: I was waving and jumping up and down, and they stopped. I got in the car.
Q: Who opened the door to the car?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: What did you do when you opened the car door— when the door opened, excuse me?
A: I jumped in.
Q: Was there anyone in the car on the passenger’s side?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that the side you got into?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was that?
A: A man and a lady.
Q: What did you do after you got inside?
A: I don’t remember much.
Q: How would you describe your condition at that time?
A: I was hysterical.
Q: Where did you go in this car?
A: I remember asking them to take me to the police station.
Q: Did they?
A: Yes.
Q: What police station did they take you to?
A: Murray.
Q: Did you at any time look back for the car, the VW?
A: When we were driving off, I was in the car with the man and lady.
Q: Did you see it?
A: Yes.
Q: Where was it?
A: It was still parked in the same place, and it was— and he turned around and went back from the same direction he came, and turned left.
Q: Turned left on what street?
A: 5900 South.
Q: So it would have been a left-hand turn on 5900 South?
A: Yes.
Q: Carol, you said you had gotten in the vehicle, then you proceeded somewhere. Where did you go? Not the exact route you took. Where did you end up, I should say?
A: By McMillan School.
MR. O’CONNELL: I think she’s talking— make it clear, the police station. Go ahead, lead her.
MR. YOCOM: Thank you, Mr. O’Connell. I will make it clear.
Q: After you got into the car that stopped for you in the street, where did those people take you?
A: To the police station.
Q: Murray Police Station?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know where that is located?
A: No, not exactly.
Q: When you arrived there, what is the first thing you recall happening?
A: They asked me what happened.
Q: Do you remember having the handcuffs removed from your arm?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know what officer did that?
A: No.
Q: Did you give a statement to the officer at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall how many different Murray Police officers you talked to that evening?
A: No.
Q: Do you recall the description you gave to them of this man you were with?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember telling them anything further about his appearance than what you have already testified to, what he was wearing?
A: No.
Q: Do you recall during any time in walking around the mall of seeing the type of shoes he was wearing?
A: Yes.
Q: Will you describe those for us?
A: They were patent leather.
Q: And the color?
A: They were a dark color.
Q: Why do you remember the shoes, Carol?
A: Because I was watching him walk, and I noticed his shoes and his pants.
Q: Were you looking down?
A: Yes.
Q: While you were in the Murray police station that night, did you observe any photographs?
A: Yes.
Q: And what sort of photographs did you look at?
A: Ones in a book, I think one book, and just some pictures they had.
Q: And how many did you look at?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: Did you look at any other photographs after that time, the next few days following this incident?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall where you were at when you looked at them?
A: Yes.
Q: Where was that?
A: At work.
Q: And how many did you see then?
A: About eight or nine.
Q: Did you look at any other photographs after that time?
A: Yes.
Q: About how many times, separate times, did the officer show you photographs?
A: About three or four times.
Q: Do you recall seeing the photograph of a vehicle, a car?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall who showed you that photograph?
A: I think it was Jerry Thompson.
Q: Carol, do you recall when Officer Thompson showed you those photographs, the approximate date?
A: No.
Q: I show you what’s been marked for identification purposes as State’s Proposed Exhibit 20, and ask you if you have ever seen that photograph before?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that the photograph that Officer Thompson showed you?
A: Yes.
Q: Likewise with State’s Proposed Exhibit 21, did you observe that photograph at the same time?
A: Yes.
Q: About how long ago did this occur, Carol?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: A month?
A: October, November.
Q: How does Exhibit 20 with regard to content of that photograph compare with what you observed about the Defendant’s vehicle, particularly the back seat, on November 8, 1974?
A: The way it’s ripped and the way the stuffing is coming out.
Q: How does that compare with what you saw?
A: Looks exactly like it.
Photo courtesy Bountiful Police.
Q: And with regard to Exhibit 21, showing a VW automobile, how does that compare with the vehicle that you saw on November 8, 1974.
A: The dent in the door and the side.
Q: Did you observe such a dent at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Carol, did you have an occasion to observe any other photo displays by any other officers?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you recall when or what officers showed you photo displays?
A: Jerry Thompson showed me some. The Bountiful Police showed me some.
Q: Did you you ever observe what is commonly known as “mug shots” at the Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office on the ninth floor?
A: Yes.
Q: Would you give me a rough estimate of about how many photographs you were asked to look at during this period of time from November 8th, say, until around August 1st?
A: How many individual ones I have seen altogether?
Q: Yes, including those in the mug books.
A: I don’t know. A lot.
Q: Closer area than “a lot”?
A: No.
Q: Would it be more than a hundred?
A: Yes.
Q: Less than a thousand?
A: Yes.
Q: Prior to August of 1975, Carol, had you ever identified anyone in those photographs as being your assailant on November 8, 1974?
A: No.
Q: When was the first time that you saw a picture of the Defendant in this action, Mr. Bundy?
A: I think it was Jerry Thompson who showed me.
Q: Do you recall the date of that?
A: No.
Q: Now, speaking generally, when you were asked to look at these photographs, Carol, what would the officers tell you before they gave you photographs to look at?
A: Just that they had some photographs for me to look at, if I saw anything that looked anything like this man, to pick it out; if I didn’t, not to pick one out.
Q: Approximately how many photographs did they show you each time?
A: About eight or nine.
Q: When Jerry Thompson showed you the photographs which contained Mr. Bundy’s photograph, how many photographs did you look at then?
A: About nine.
Q: Do you recall what you told him on that occasion with regard to Mr. Bundy’s photograph?
A: No.
Q: Where were you when this took place?
A: At work.
Q: Do you recall generally how the conversation went? First of all, when he handed you the photographs, what did he say to you?
A: Just to look through them.
Q: Do you recall what you did when you got to Mr. Bundy’s photograph?
A: I think I put it aside and put it in my lap. On my knee.
Q: Then what happened?
A: What do you mean?
Q: After you put the photograph on your lap, did you go through the rest of the photographs?
A: Yes.
Q: And when you got through all of them, what did you do?
A: I handed him the one.
Q: The one back?
A: Yes.
Q: What was said then?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Do you remember what you told him?
A: No.
Q: Had you at any time up until that time ever seen a photograph of the man sitting at counsel table here, Mr. Theodore Bundy?
A: No.
Q: Had you ever picked out what we refer to as “look-alikes”?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember how many times you told the officer that a particular picture looked like the man or had a similar characteristic?
A: No.
Q: Was it a lot or a few?
A: It was a few.
Q: Just a few?
A: Yes.
Q: When is the next time you remember seeing a photograph of Mr. Bundy?
A: I’m not sure.
Q: How long after you saw the photograph that Jerry Thompson had?
A: About two weeks.
Q: Do you remember who showed you that photograph?
A: I think it was the Bountiful Police.
Q: Do these photographs differ in any way from the photographs that you saw that Officer Thompson had? Were they different kinds of photographs?
A: Yes.
Q: What kind were they?
A: Driver’s license.
Q: Do you remember how many that officer showed you?
A: No.
Q: Did you see a picture of Mr. Bundy in that photograph display?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Do you remember picking someone out?
A: I think so.
Q: Did you have an occasion on the 2nd day of October, 1975, to appear at the Metropolitan Hall of Justice at what is commonly referred to as a lineup, Carol?
A: Yes.
Q: Let me ask you this: did you see a number of participants in that lineup at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: What were you told before the lineup in regard to what was going to happen and what you were supposed to do, if anything?
A: I was supposed to watch them, what they did, not talk to anyone, if I thought— if I saw the man, if I did, to write the number down.
Q: Can you remember how the lineup was conducted, what took place?
A: They walked and they had them talk.
Q: Each one of the members of the lineup?
A: Yes.
Q: Was the Defendant in that lineup?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have an opportunity to hear him speak at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have an opportunity to see him walk?
A: Yes.
Q: And did you pick out an individual as being the man that was— and you were in his car on November 8, 1974?
A: Yes.
Q: What number did you pick?
A: Seven.
Q: What time during the course of the lineup did you recognize that individual?
A: When he walked out.
Q: “Walked out,” what do you mean?
A: When they first walked out.
Q: Walked out onto the stage in the lineup room, you mean?
A: Yes.
Q: Were you at that time able to identify him from your recollection of him on November 8th, Carol?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have any trouble?
A: No.
Q: Did he appear any different then than he did on November 8th?
A: Yes.
Q: In what way?
A: He looked more clean-cut. His hair was shorter. He didn’t have a mustache.
Q: Did you notice anything about his appearance that was identical to the way you observed him on November 8th?
A: The way he walked.
Q: Anything else?
A: His face.
Q: Any particular part of his face?
A: No.
Q: Do you remember any distinctive features, anything about his voice? Do you recall going back to November 8th and hearing it?
A: No.
Q: How would you describe his manner of speaking, to use that term on November 8th, Carol?
A: What do you mean?
Q: Well, was there any particular thing about his voice that stood out in your mind or the way he spoke, the words he used?
A: He was polite, sounded like he was well educated, by the way he talked.
Q: Carol, I show you now what has been marked as State’s Proposed Exhibit 23. Do you recognize that jacket?
A: Yes.
Q: And is that the jacket you were wearing on November 8, 1974?
A: Yes.
Q: After you got home that evening Carol, did you notice anything unusual about that jacket?
A: Yes.
Q: Can you explain to the Court what you noticed at that time?
A: It had blood around one of— the fur of one of the sleeves and around the collar.
Q: Would you show us on the coat where that was located?
A: Up on here. I don’t remember what sleeve it was on, which one.
Q: You are indicating which would be to the back of the jacket?
A: Yes.
Q: On the fur collar?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do after you noticed that? Did you tell anyone about it?
A: It wasn’t until Monday— the Monday that, when the officer Joel Riet came up to show me some pictures that I told him there was some blood on my coat, and he told me to go get it for him, and I got him the coat, and he cut the fur off some of it.
Q: Cut the fur off the coat collar and the sleeve where the blood was located?
A: Yes.
MR. YOCOM: No further questions.
Thank you!